First of all, we need these sound files. I would suggest, by the way, that you download these, and listen to them as if you were listening to birds. Play them all the time, morning, noon, and night, listen to them in reverse order, listen to them in alphabetical order, listen to them in random order, upside down, and inside out. If you don't come to love them, you can quit this blog. These birds aren't for you! If you think they should be like live birds, though, they can't. They are counterfeits. My family would love plastic birds and recordings, no muss no fuss. That just doesn't work. The recordings are counterfeits of the real thing. By the way, if you come to love the recordings, you may find yourself where I was: I have sold all my classic type of timbrados and have I would expect that you will be finding yourself in that position! Just a hint!
Both RealOne and MS MediaPlayer enable you to save a play list, and so does probably any media player. I would suggest that you make a play list, if you already haven't.
Listen to the files! That's your assignment for now.
Now, let me think about being painted in a corner. My next idea is to start some competition files from timbrado.com. I'll give you the pages where the files and the finished contesters are, but they are in Spanish. I'm hoping for permission to put an English version here. These should be invaluable.
Without knowing anything about judging and vocabulary, I will ask you to match the critiques with the sound files as best as you can. That's what I'm trying to do, and I can definitely see that it will help, even though abstract and imprecise. If I can do that, I'm not painted in a corner yet.
Then, I will try to learn, (I just wrote teach, but I do indeed mean learn) various sounds, as Juan Sanchez has tried to teach me. Juan is here, so he may enter the conversation (I hope he does, hint, hint). I will probably just be rewording or, easier yet, just copying his messages, and sharing them here, so the whole country and world can try to learn. If this works, I may not be painted into a corner yet.
Oh, yes I will. We need sound files! I can put as many as my ISP memory allows oup on my website, and then post links to them. Am I painted onto a corner yet? MAYBE not. We shall see. I do hope to put specific vocabulary here, though, such as timbre, continuous, discontinuous, semi continues, etc. And more etc. This is very difficult to learn, I'm finding out. The birds you have been listening to switch from one thing to another very quickly, I'm learning. Tough stuff, but is there any short cut? Well, maybe just skipping that stuff, or skimming it. If you are not planning on breeding, I would suggest that, but....
If you are planning on breeding, you will want to select the best birds you can raise to have the best songs. That means that you must be able to hear which birds best qualify! If you simply breed a floreado with another, you will have babies, but they will slowly degenerate, and they certainly won't improve. I should think that careful attempts to learn the vocabulary would be for those who intend to breed. That will be me :) Don't ask me how fast the young birds will degenerate, I have no idea! I do know that if you try to learn the songs you will also appreciate the birds more, I'm learning that. It's just like taking a music course! (I have a MA in music, AHem). This is very hard, but nobody is going to judge you! You can even fake (another AHem!).
And, of course there will be breeding thoughts. Not basic breeding, as there are any number of resources on the internet for that. I would suggest you join them to learn breeding (there are 3 timbrado lists on Yahoo, I belong to them, you should too, if you will be breeding these lovely birds.
Those are the basic Ideas I have so far for the future. Do you think they will work out??? We shall see!!!! I don't give up easily!!! Good luck to all the world with these birds that are so worth it!!!
Oh, one last word, I should be so happy to get to know evryone who wants to stick around. I hope you will write me or the others here. firstname.lastname@example.org. Remember you can always post comments, and if you ask me, you can also post messages, rather like a discussion group, but if you stay here, you will notice that it's not the same. Blogs are the great new invention. The problem I'm having with this one is that the beginning is really at the bottom, and that it's developmental, from the bottom. I have yet to find out how that will work out.
Vocabulary Pep Talk.
As usual, or as pretty much always, I'm hoping for permission from timbrado.com to proceed.
Enter: Hard Work
I'm ready to move to probably the toughest part now. Finding words to describe the song is exasperating to me, and learning that the place the number of words which come from Spain makes this a slow and tedious job, but essential, as we need a way to talk about what the birds are doing. If each of us invented our own vocabulary, it wouldn't help, as we wouldn't be understood. To me, the Goldfinch call note is "Georgia" as clear as can be. And the words and sounds must be learned to put us all on the same track. "Georgia" simply won't work, because I would have to learn the vocabulary of others (I have no idea what the accepted word is for the goldfinch call note) but the vocabulary must be agreed on. I hope you will very soon come head on to this, if I start putting up the score sheets from the timbrado.com site. Luis has been helping me identify some of the notes, and there is a breakdown of some of them on timbrado.com, I'll post the page, because that's the direction I intend to go. I bet there will be drop outs, because sometimes I think I would drop out, if I wasn't getting the birds. I'll try to make it easy enough for even myself to learn, because I hope to get Past the beginner--infant stage. If we ever need some time out, we can always just listen to them because they are so beautiful! Then lets get back to work again!
Of course, this blog is just a guide and I should not expect anyone to follow it exactly. Too much work! Ready to begin? Take a deep breath and put on your safety hat!
Summary and Main Point
I think the most important point of the floreado story as I know it so far is below. Drove's discovery is the source for the floreado that is so much loved by a sizable number of breeders in Spain, and is now reaching America.
Hi Tom and friends:
Certainly Drove found in the 50s the type of song that he thought lost and forgotten. This was in Asturias (North of Spain) where a very small number of fanciers managed to preserve the essence of the ancient Spanish Song. The master found the disciples, as in the old stories, and they started to rebuild, with Drove�s guidance, probably the most characteristic canary song since truth and Seifert developed modern Roller. And this has not ended yet, probably never will. The way that we select our 'floreados' allows them to develop all their inner capabilities, all their creativity, that seems to be endless. Every year we listen different things and amaze us the way that so little brains and bodies are able to compose and perform such beautiful music. "
A Link with more Information on My Last Post
A Superb Advice from Luis
The song is all, though, and I guess the only choice is for people who like the same things to hang out with each other. Ultimately that may become the only choice for this blog. There still seems to be the problem of Country Western or Hip Hop enthusiasts to go to the Opera!
The most solid thing I can say for now is that if my birds sound anything like the files I'm hearing, I shall be most happy! I could only want to share that with others. And I don't even have the birds yet! My next post immediately will be a link to more information on this subject.
I hope to soon begin to talk about the aspects of song that I'm learning.
More History... An Important Point.
Advanced Information (short read)
Tor the entire article, on Sebastian Vallelunga's site, click here Custom Page
Sound Files, Compliments of Luis Sanchez
http://www.cwwcbc.us/tk/ Floreado Type Spanish Timbrado Canary
An Important Comment to Yesterday's History by Luis Sanchez
Your "fictional" story is more or less true. In fact it could be as valid as any, as we don´t exectly know how things happened. We know that Timbrado comes from the wild canary and we know that wild canary song is very varied to the point thet we can say that , already in wild canaries, there are "lines of song", that´s to say, the birds from different islands sing in a slightly different way. Some are completely discontinuous, some have short continuous notes ( even less than the birds that we call intermediates) but not a single wild canary sings like a classic Timbrado. So, where do long continuous notes in Timbrado come from? There are two possibilities:
- some canaries could have been selected in Spain, from the very beginging, towards continuous song.
- long and prevalent continuous notes come, in Timbrado, from crosses with Roller.
I believe that this second possibility is true, as we know that during 19th and the first half of 20th century most of Spanish canaries were crossed, even song canaries. At that moment the only internationally recognized song bred was Roller and the fanciers thought that the path chosen by Germans was the only possible path. My own grandfather had this crossed birds. Some fanciers realised that this was ending with Spanish song canaries and developed ( after the Spanish Civil War 1936- 39) Spanish Timbrado. The problem is that these fanciers started with already crossed canaries, actually the crosses had gone so far and for such a long time that , probably, they thought that those birds were true Spanish Singers, they didn´t know how a non crossed Spanish Singer could sing. From these birds evolved what we know nowadays as "classic Timbrado".
This could have been the end of the story, if not by a man. This is one of those rare situations in which a single man can change the History, at least the History of Spanish Timbrado. This man was Antonio Drove Aza. Drove was in the 50s and 60s probably the most relevant Spanish expert in canary song. He was a Roller judge but, during his youth, he had bred pure Spanish Singers, working with crosses with wild canary, trying to recover the , already dying, Spanish Song. He knew that all those continuous notes in Timbrado come from crosses with Roller and he tried to explain everyone about that. He knew that Spanish Song canaries were different but he thought that were lost... til he found some alive!! This was in Asturias ( North of Spain) during the 50s. And everything started again, he organized this very small group of fanciers ( no more than 20 ) and explained them the way that he had already travelled during his youth. They were, certainly, rebels but the! ir birds were outstanding and they grew and bloomed. We´re already grewing and blooming thanks to this man.
I didn´t know him but, fortunately, he wrote quite a lot of articles. They are, today, as alive as 50 years ago. I send you the translation of one, made by Sebastian Vallelunga .
The Floreado, a Fictional History
Alright, so this story may be imaginative and fictional, it's the story that I made up and I'm sticking to it if no one makes any corrections. There is a history someplace on Timbrado.com, and Hurtado also gives one and I suppose I should check them out, but my story will be an easy read, and it will make the points that I wish to make.
I am imagining the 15th century (?) With its ships and travel. Sometime during this period the Spanish noticed the beautiful canaries and noticed that they were easy to breed compared to other birds. If I have the story correct, the Spanish even had a monopoly because they were cool enough to sell males, and not females to Europe and abroad. I guess that broke down when some shipment or some such crashed, releasing female birds, but it probably would have happened anyway.
I would say that from the very beginning there was a group of enthusiasts in Spain that were interested completely in the song. As the canary can be "improved", individuals and groups probably very near to the beginning became interested in all the other possibilities -- things like size, color, shape, feather, perhaps someone may have invented a talking canary if that was possible! All these birds have their champions, and I shall not pursue them, as I am interested solely in the song, as many Spanish enthusiasts have been to this very day.
Just one sentence on this, there has been interest in the song in other countries also, so we have the German roller, which I believe, although never pursued story, that the German roller is a physical mutation, as it really doesn't even have a call note, and I have a feeling that they want to sing the notes of a typical canary but can't. Then, we also have the Belgian waterslagger, which seems to be somewhere in between what has been developed into a song of its own. OK, so I lied when I said one sentence. I want to move on.
As I've said, there have been groups of Spanish people from the very beginning organizing themselves into certain song preferences. Not always the same, but close enough to be considered one. We are talking here about the Spanish Timbrado, of course. Might interest. I brought my first Timbrado's about four years ago and noticed immediately that they have about four times more vocabulary than the typical canary. The typical canary sounds rather like a wind up machine to me then it sounds like a bird. I do like the typical canary, especially with a collection of birds, but I noticed right away that the Timbrado was the bird of my heart. I have been mixing them with wild carduelids and have been very, very happy. I have a DVD to show this, by the way. Unfortunately, the wild types have been an endless source of worry, and especially in America, there seems to be a life and death struggle with these birds as far as I can see.
This is not the end of the story, but is the beginning as I am perceiving. I think the Timbrado may have had some trouble being accepted as a breed of its own right, and a songbird at that, and I think that rather late with a first accepted as a breed of their own right. I don't know the date.
Now here's where the story may be somewhat fictional, and even and even if I get corrected, I shall keep this version, as it makes sense. I guess it took a while to agree on a standard Spanish Timbrado song. I am imagining that this has been accepted, and to this day is the classic Timbrado song. It is the song accepted into America. And the story good and here, BUT the most interesting part is yet to come. We will call this bird the classical Timbrado. It is the Timbrado that you will find in America right now. BUT ...
I can only imagine, because I have never been to Spain, and my version makes a lot of sense to me. Being the true expert's, these groups of Spanish breeders, the people who truly know the Timbrado from the inside out, perhaps rebelled against the classical Timbrado? Is this a group of rebels? I like rebels, anyway, and I have a T-shirt to prove it. I can only make up that a sizable portion of Spain has continued doing what they have always done -- raise the best singers. This is going on today, and the point of this blog is to see if a I can fit in here someplace. I am imagining that the classical Timbrado is not really the bird of choice to these rebels. There seems to be a split in the Timbrado country, and I have been so taken by this other group of canaries that I have planned to make a complete switch. I have learned a great deal in the last few months, and I hope I can pass it on to others. Of course we would need a new name, and there is one. These are called the Floreado type, and the interest in this very different song is called a discontinuance. To me it is VERY, VERY difficult, and I shall make up an entire blog as I go.
Also, as Timbrado.com says someplace, there is absolutely no reason why the two groups should split, and that there must be an allowance for both songs, as well as anywhere in between. As my previous post says, when we are in the aesthetic domain, argument is fruitless and learning is all. I myself am committed wholly to this Floreado type, but I realize that all matters in between are good and valuable.
It's difficult to read a long time on a computer, and I shall and here for today. By the way, if you check out nextup.com you can't find a text reader which will read anything on the screen, all day long. My Paul reads to me pretty much all day every day!
Sound files and notes related to them can be found here. There is also a permanent link on the left hand column, called "Files and Song"
Aesthetics, Song, and America
Aesthetics, Song, and America
Which Bird is the best singer? This question will enter into a discussion of aesthetics, and I will compare bird song to which opera singer is the best singer. I shall start by telling you that I've just reviewed the Britannica article on aesthetics. The article plainly explains the difficulty of a discussion like this, and yet acknowledges that it is not only a puzzling, but also a very interesting realm of experience. Defining the word is actually the main job in furthering the discussion. I shall not do that, but I'll note some things that are interesting to me. If you ask a question such as, is Renata Tebaldi or Maria Callas the best singer, depending on your approach, it is likely to be a fruitless waste of time, and at its best, it might cause very interesting further thought. What it is not likely to do is settle the issue. That is the problem the aesthete lives with. The discussion is too abstract for any of the kind of logic that a subject like math might give in to.
One thing we can notice, however, is that there is a body of knowledge. Only a person who has spent a lot of time listening to the two sopranos -- not one, but both singers could have a valid discussion. Country-western singers would have no place here. Of course, we know that with bird song because we work hard to get qualifying judges that know the timbrado song. There is no substitute for listening carefully and critically. Anyone who has not listened to the singers would have no way of understanding what the critics are referring to. There is no substitute for listening, if I am right.
Because listening is so important to learning, I would say that at this point Spain has a tremendous advantage over America. My guess is that most of the expert breeder's in Spain began loving their birds in childhood. I would guess that there is a point where these breeders became interested in the timbrado song by listening to the birds. Continued listening and discrimination has led them to the point where they are now. While in Spain, this whole process may have been unconscious, in America we have nothing to compare it with.
I propose that with the modern technology that we have in the versatility of our computers, we in America have a wonderful source of learning and that the beginning is write on this site. In fact, I became interested through listening to the sound files on this site. Only now first and I beginning to read the extensive and wonderful pages of text. I may be wrong, but I know of no American which is as expert as the information and sound files (and even video files) which can be found in this site. In fact, I have never heard either Renata Tebaldi (who just died last month) or Maria Callas. I learned all of my opera from records. Only by knowing their recordings have it become interested when ever I read about these two singers. I think the same would be true with the timbrado Bird.
If I understand correctly, the classic type of timbrado has become established in America, I am thinking the cause that's what we hear and have learned. Of course, the roller and the waterslagger have been here much longer and I suspect we have a body of knowledge of these birds which is much more extensive than with the Floreados type of timbrado. America has a lot to learn from Spain and with the Internet, we have a means of learning! Spain has been doing t! his for hundreds of years, and I definitely believe that America has the means for learning the basics through the Internet. I am guessing that it may become likely that we may produce birds with a somewhat different song from the Spanish birds, just as in Spain communities have had small differences in the various areas. I believe that it will put us on the right track and give us the body of knowledge we don’t yet have. I am so happy that Spain is willing to teach us! The evidence is on this site. Good luck to a! ll of us!
Blame the Dragon Dictation program -- ride with a glide -- Segway
Spanish Timbrado canary or canaries
This is the site I owe everything to. It's much larger than you might at first think, and I hope to study pages forever. A word of warning, I don't think all the pages are in English, I think you should sometimes switch to Spanish and try to get around. Also, there is a large a mount if song files. I think it is impossible to learn the text and skip the sound files -- They are the most essential part of the learning path, and we can forever thank this fantastic group of Spanish experts for their effort to help us!
You won't get far without referring to this site.
In writing this blog, I have a single purpose. That is to reveal these exceptional birds -- the Spanish timbrado -- to America. I think America has already been introduced but is far is I can tell is only beginning to take on the work that is required to breed birds anywhere near the standard that the Spanish has been working with since the very beginning. I don't think I will ever consider myself to be at the level that I have learned that the Spanish are, and here, I intend to slowly present my work as I learn, and I should love to help people along the way.
You are always invited to participate and can always leave a comment to anything and you certainly can praise me all you want. If you want to participate more fully, please e-mail me and I can give you full posting privileges. Actually, the ideal would be that this would become a community, but I am already used to my invisible audience.
I should also mention that my next post will introduce you to a Spanish web site which is the source of all my work. Much has been translated to English, but it might also help if you have Microsoft office to translate more pages on your own. I cannot stress enough how much I've oh to this site and some friends that I have made their. I don't think we can get far without the help of the wonderful people on that web site.
I might finish by saying that I have been doing rather serious work this winter, and I intend to continue to work at learning the Spanish timbrado song. Please be most welcome to learn with me and participate as I continue to work, or better yet, please be welcome to work with me!